"As Rina, Daughter of Norin enters the battlefield, name a card. Whenever a player casts a spell or a creature attacks, exile target permanent with the chosen name. Return that permanent to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Also because it allows you to interact with your opponent's permanents, I definitely don't think she can be one mana. Norin himself really didn't do anything, as he couldn't attack or block, and didn't have any actual effect on the game, that's why he could be 1 mana. Rina on the other hand, can significantly affect game play, and being 1 mana, even if they answer her, is easily repeatedly cast-able as a general. she probably needs to be at least 3 or 4 mana, but you could give her more appropriate stats as well.
That is the thing. In the right deck Norin does alot. What makes Norin so good is that he is near impossible to kill (though I have seen it). Rina can act as another Norin, but with less power, which can matter. However, once she names something else, she is gut shotable. Even if you bounce something your opponent controls it will just come back (excluding tokens) and Rina will probably be dead. I just through her together last night and would need to play test her.
Norin doesn't do a lot, confusion in the ranks and pandemonium do a lot with Norin (big difference).
Rina on the other hand, is a 1 mana mistmeadow witch that doesn't require any mana to activate. Or a 1 mana fiend hunter as long as they don't have relevant citp abilities, that can hit artifacts, and enchantments (hey, something else red shouldn't be doing).
As a 1 mana general it doesn't matter if she's a 1/1, as it's very easy to recast her, making spot removal usually a waste, and the spot removal will trigger her ability, so she still did what she needed to that turn. Also, if you pop a lightning greaves or swiftboots on her, the "killable" argument is suddenly invalid.
Also realize the way she is worded, you can cast spells main 1, exiling your mountains, attack with a bunch of creatures, exiling the remaining mountains, and then getting them back untapped eot for reactionary spells on your opponents turn.
The easiest fix is making it nonland (or not a basic land). Once you name a permanent other that herself she dies to wrath. Yes she's cheep to replay, but she is only a fiend hunter(ish) and death really adds up for any general. Norin is good because he never dies and if he does you recast him that one time. You'd have to cast Rina alot. I'm not saying you are wrong that she is overpowered, but I'd want to playtest it first. I agree, though, lands would be too much.
I still say she's definitely too under costed, even if you restrict her to just creatures she's a 1 mana mistmeadow witch that doesn't require mana to activate.
Also, if they're wasting 4+ mana to wrath your 1 mana general, and you just replay it for 3 mana naming the new biggest threat, how is that still not completely overpowered?
She should be 3+ mana, and only effect creatures, or even your creatures. She'd still be very powerful with those changes.
I removed flying as I feel it cluttered the text box and doesn't really fit with being a human.
ReplyDeleteI think you'd be better off with
ReplyDelete"As Rina, Daughter of Norin enters the battlefield, name a card.
Whenever a player casts a spell or a creature attacks, exile target permanent with the chosen name. Return that permanent to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step."
Also because it allows you to interact with your opponent's permanents, I definitely don't think she can be one mana. Norin himself really didn't do anything, as he couldn't attack or block, and didn't have any actual effect on the game, that's why he could be 1 mana. Rina on the other hand, can significantly affect game play, and being 1 mana, even if they answer her, is easily repeatedly cast-able as a general. she probably needs to be at least 3 or 4 mana, but you could give her more appropriate stats as well.
That is the thing. In the right deck Norin does alot. What makes Norin so good is that he is near impossible to kill (though I have seen it). Rina can act as another Norin, but with less power, which can matter. However, once she names something else, she is gut shotable. Even if you bounce something your opponent controls it will just come back (excluding tokens) and Rina will probably be dead. I just through her together last night and would need to play test her.
ReplyDeleteNorin doesn't do a lot, confusion in the ranks and pandemonium do a lot with Norin (big difference).
ReplyDeleteRina on the other hand, is a 1 mana mistmeadow witch that doesn't require any mana to activate. Or a 1 mana fiend hunter as long as they don't have relevant citp abilities, that can hit artifacts, and enchantments (hey, something else red shouldn't be doing).
As a 1 mana general it doesn't matter if she's a 1/1, as it's very easy to recast her, making spot removal usually a waste, and the spot removal will trigger her ability, so she still did what she needed to that turn. Also, if you pop a lightning greaves or swiftboots on her, the "killable" argument is suddenly invalid.
She is way too powerful at 1 mana.
Also realize the way she is worded, you can cast spells main 1, exiling your mountains, attack with a bunch of creatures, exiling the remaining mountains, and then getting them back untapped eot for reactionary spells on your opponents turn.
DeleteThe easiest fix is making it nonland (or not a basic land). Once you name a permanent other that herself she dies to wrath. Yes she's cheep to replay, but she is only a fiend hunter(ish) and death really adds up for any general. Norin is good because he never dies and if he does you recast him that one time. You'd have to cast Rina alot. I'm not saying you are wrong that she is overpowered, but I'd want to playtest it first. I agree, though, lands would be too much.
ReplyDeleteI still say she's definitely too under costed, even if you restrict her to just creatures she's a 1 mana mistmeadow witch that doesn't require mana to activate.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if they're wasting 4+ mana to wrath your 1 mana general, and you just replay it for 3 mana naming the new biggest threat, how is that still not completely overpowered?
She should be 3+ mana, and only effect creatures, or even your creatures. She'd still be very powerful with those changes.
Updated her and I hope to play test her this weekend. Thanks for all the input!
ReplyDelete